i am not a jw but i am a business manager and one of my employees is.
i want to be able to understand her better and be able to respect her choices but i struggle with certain issues such as sending holiday cards to company clients.
she won't do so because of her beliefs and the clients cannot be neglected so this of course creates added work to those who are already very busy.. i am unsure of when to separate religion from business and am confused about why it's ok for her to take the vacation days designated for christmas, yet she can't cater to the needs of the business.. i do not ask things of her that fall outside the scope of her position and because of the lengths we go through to provide concierge service for our clients, i find that her religion is an out for her participation.
I just want to say how I appreciated the comments here and the respect shown. WHen I was an active witness, my view of so called 'apostates' was ingrained to be evil - I would never have expected b4 I left that such respect for the rights of witnesses would have been upheld on a forum of this sort - or course I know better now - but just thank all you good apostates for being so honest and decent in matters like this -
Jeff
yes you read that correctly, but first let me say that i'm not going to learn anything (as if that would happen anyway), but i'm going to gloat.. the last couple of times i went there a few months ago was because i was being forcedstrongly encouraged (http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/9/74780/1202255/post.ashx#1202255) and i felt intimidated when i went.
now that i have become a regular reader of various discussions here, i know i can walk in there with my head held high and look at them with just as much disgust in my eyes as they have in theirs because i haven't been begging to come back to such a unloving and hateful organization.. i also want to take a good look at my step-mother.
i know for a fact that things on the homefront have been much less than a "loving theocratic atmosphere" between her and my father.
I was totally regular in meeting attendance and field service, etc. right up to the last meeting attended. But since then have only stepped back in to the hall once at the memorial (there are reasons for this). Hence, I consider myself no longer under the authority of the congregation. The longer this goes on, the freer I can become to speak my mind and not risk being disfellowshipped for apostacy (would cause family problems) - I am no longer under their authority and show it by not associating at all.
Good point eyeslice - I feel the same way. In fact there is some legal issue here, that I read in the 'elders handbook' - I have been absent from the meetings for the most of two years , minus a period of about three weeks a little over a year back - before I really knew the truth bout the truth. I am tempted at times to go to a meeting - carry in my NIV Bible - get there just after song and prayer - and leave before the end - but I do not want to give them a chance to reassert power over me - same issue w/ family in still.
Jeff
i just heard my ex brother in law has been made an elder.
no big deal but he was the one that had private reproof for going to a strip club a while back.
i guess it is ok considering they allow pedophiles to go door to door.
Vm44 -
I tried all that - but the scriptures were not enough to get me appointed - since they feared that I actually had opinions and thought things thru. I am glad now that I never got appointed (although later one elder told me that I had been approved by a unanimous vote of the local elders - then the CO voided the vote and I was not appointed) I asked the CO why -and his answer was revealing - He asked me what the most important qualification was - I pointed out the scripture you cite - and added 'to Love the brothers' - he grinned and stated that 'No, the most important qualification was - to work well with the body of elders.'
I just was not 'company man' enough for them....HMMMMM
Jeff
does anybody know the current status of the jackson family.
is michael jackson disfellowshipped or disassociated?
what about latoya jackson?
I've read all of Firpo's books, and have communicated with him per e-mail, and he strikes me as being somewhat - to put it mildly - egocentric; he was the first man ever to discover this and that, to travel here and there, so gain access to this and that etc. The center of the Universe, whereas in fact whathe produces are things already published or more or less commonly known, or self-evident things.
OldHippy - are you referring to Firpo or to Al Gore, great 'inventor of the internet'? LOL
in the future, there might appear some biographies of our favorite judge.. but in the meantime, how about collecting in one place all the information we have concerning j.f.
rutherford?.
i place this in scandels and coeverups because there has been a bigtime coverup throughout the years on all aspects of rutherford's life.. it is high time for some light to be shown on him!.
A lot could be said: but it seems to me that the largest legacy of the good judge is his "millions now living" series of faux pas - especially the 1925 debacle and Beth Sarim. I don't know if there is enough data to fill a book available - but that would be a good one.
Jeff
i've been reading christopher hitchen's love poverty, and war.
it's a pretty good book that puts a lot of things in perspective regarding iraq, iran, pakistan...there's even a section on mother teresa.
this section...was probably the most interesting part of the whole book i have read so far.
FD-
She once said: "The suffering of the poor is something very beautiful and the world is being very much helped by the nobility of this example of misery and suffering." To me that is a sickening and perverse idea of beauty
Well, if she said that - and I don't know the context, I would have to on first blush agree with the assessment that it is perverse. But I wonder how, if this was indeed her overriding philosophical viewpoint, how did she gain such a popularity. I would rather think that the context here is missing something - albeit far be from me to identify it on the little info I have - just my opinion.
Jeff
i am having some conflicting feelings lately that i need some advice on.
i am starting to believe that the bible contradicts itself but at the same time i love jehovah and jesus and have hope for some form of eternal life.
that will never change but i have never believed in the bible 100% coming from god.
And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28 (NIV)
Ozzie - I would never attempt to countermand the scriptures. I suppose that what I meant is that as opposed to predestiny - the view that all is controlled or pre-ordained - I still think that even without such, God could work out good toward those who love him - within the framework of what is tolerated without predetermination.
Jeff
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if it were possible to get a jw to actually listen to us, which three good questions do you reckon might get him/her to sit down and think?
ian
If you could really get one to sit still long enough for this type of fair discussion, how about this;
Most witnesses will not have any idea - although some will state that Jw's have high morals, ect -Bring them back to earth with a repeated request for credentials. Then you will have answer the question for them- The claim is that they were selected in 1918 by Christ for showing faithfulness in feeding the domestics in his absence, based on the parable in Matt 24:25-27. They will agree to that.
They will invariably agree with this point of view - since they are all under the misconception that the evidence supports that very conclusion.You could then present to them some old Watchtower quotes and history - it would have to be prepared in advance to assure that it is clearly just quotes and no 'apostate' verbage attached to it -
They will then attempt to defend the position based on the 'well no matter what we believed then, we have the truth now, defensive strategy'. But kindly remind them that we just proved by quotes right out of the watchtower that it does not add up that they were selected when they state they had been. If they wish to chase something that the evidence disproves, that is for them to decide - but evidence is evidence. The original question was about the credentials - and we have shown they have none by historic references out of their own archives.
Could make for a decent discussion at least - without all the hype and heat that comes from a random exchange with them.
Jeff
i am having trouble dealing with this little voice in the back of my head telling me that if i don't go back to meetings i won't go to the new system and everything i am doing is wrong blah blah blah.
although i have agreed to a study i believe it is more to shut up this little voice rather than because i want to be a witness again.
but if i don't go back i have to deal with this horrible feeling all the time.
Read everything you can about the WTBTS, it will get you over that fear. Once you realize it is all bogus garbage you were fed that fear will leave. It did for me 100%. Have you read Ray Frantz book "Crisis of Conscious". If you haven't you are doing yourself a real injustice by not educating yourself.
Confuzzed - I must concur with Balsam here for sure.
I would add to that Jim Penton's book "Apocalypse Delayed" - I have just started to read that book - and I can't put it down. It gives a broader historical perspective than do Franz's books (which would be expected since Penton is by discipline an historian) to the history of Jehovah's witnesses - and surprisingly (to us former cynical witnesses) like Franz' books, it in a fair and balanced look at matters, not a blatant 'watchtower bashing' diatribe.
Here is my short list of things to read, that have helped me and Mrs AK -
Crisis of Conscience - Franz
In Search or Christian Freedom - Franz
The Gentile Times Reconsidered - Jonsson
Paul's Idea of Community - Banks
Apocalpse Delayed - Penton
If you read all these - it will take you a while - by the time you are done your perspective will be very different I think -and more balanced.
Jeff
my mother doesn't speak to me although she will exchange emails with me.
we actually don't communicate much, but recently i sent her a few emails detailing things are wrong with the watchtower society.
her responses are laughable... but i am still printing out articles and mailing them to her about the un scandle, she of course doesn't believe it.. but has anyone sucessfully made any headway talking to a dyed in the wool jw and made any progress?
Like Balsam, I too was a dyed in the wool JW for 30 years -
We actually (Mrs AK included) took ourselves out - but it was thru this medium of Internet and becoming aware of things hidden that we discovered the deception and left -
I was able to bring about 7 persons into the 'truth' - most of them have died or left on thier own now.
I am trying to work on my cousin - who has been my best friend for most of that 30 years - but he is resistant so far. I have avoided getting DF'd for his sake only - otherwise I would not care - I have told him that, with a view to softening the blow should they DF me quickly. Otherwise, I have not been allowed much contact with former witnesses - I, of the let's gossip him into being 'shunned' class -
I do take whatever opportunities to speak at length with all Df'd persons I meet up with - I know they will enjoy having a conversation with someone who knows the system - and I hope to be able to get them to see the light before they get reinstated. I have actually had some wonderfull conversations with a few of them - after they get over the shock of me talking to them like a real human being -
Jeff
